FACILITIES COMMITTEE MINUTES AFTER MAY 22,2012

East Montpelier Elementary School Facilities Committee
August 6, 2012
In attendance:  Glenn Moore, Ken Page, Erik Esselstyn, Richard Raubertas,
Michael Duane, Flor Diaz-Smith, Robbe Porter, Ellen Knoedler, Jamie O’Hare, Anne Carter, André Gilbert,
Need to Know: EMES School Board
Agenda Items


Discussion
Follow up/Person Responsible
Review Minutes from July 30,2012
No comments.

Review Report from Mike Duane on Comments
Unscientific report on an unscientific survey (Mike)
                                          A.
This price tag is a product of not making investments/improvements over the years - 
 Aprox. Total of East Montpelier registered voters       1,443
 Number of votes cast in May 2012 bond vote               690
NO Votes                                                                                              404 N
YES Votes                                                                                                 286 Y
 Diff.                                                                                                      118
                                                  B.
Number of surveys received/returned                           124   (83 on-line/41 by mail)
Respondents who indicated they had voted No           58
                                                         C.
Do you support bond for numerical results:
Kitchen                  Yes 87*   No 21     blank 16
Art & Music         Yes 59    No 48      blank 16
Pre-K             Yes 57   No 47      blank 20
Lib./Admin.         Yes 56    No 47      blank 20
Gym                          Yes 56   No 49      blank 19

                                                      D.
General narrative survey results themes:

50%  of the comments stated that the cost of the bond was simply too high; 25% of the comments supported the bond generally;
10% questioned the need for an assistant principal; (operational not capitol)
10% questioned the need for a pre-school in the building;
8% questioned the need for the gym space;
7% questioned the cost of the fire station;
                                E.
General observations
Many comments thanking the Board and Committee for their work on both Yes and No votes;
Many comments to just do the basics to bring the school up to code;
4-5 commenters:
“You” statements;
A vote choice;
How could the school have been so neglected/not maintained?
Merger issues (other schools and U-32)                                  


TC
Review further Architectural analysis and recommendations
Provide further input to Architects in what direction to go.
Option A1.
Bathrooms:
You have to blow walls to make them bigger to comply with code.
Program driven solution or budget oriented solution? David Epstein
8.9 Million 
Ellen Teaches in one of those rooms, they don’t want any less Sf they need the space. They need the space no Small collaboration rooms.
Given the comments we have to be clear in how we label and not hide information. Label classrooms.  (Mike)
The space needs of the entire school. Feeling in the community from people that have been here for a long time.  Call it a PK  a Primary Wing, List who is going to be in each section. 

From Both plans:

Space
Functioning and working bathrooms.  Time out space. Big kids! More space. Spaces whiting the classroom with the break out room.

Flexible space for Art and Music room.
Anne keeping the cafeteria separate is important.
The Bond that was defeated was 10.3 (Mike Duane)
8.3 M 
We can make that work It has to be in the low 8 million dollar range.
Something needs to be done.

Art and Music are to small the way they are right now. Not enough space

You want and need all the space what do we give up?

Facilities Committee, Administrators
TC
TC
Review further Architectural analysis and recommendations
Provide further input to Architects in what direction to go.
Some or most members of the community do not understand the cost of the renovation and how much it will impact their taxes.
Get a letter for how much your specific house increase is.
A dollar a day per family (Erik ) plan that we can rally around.  Lets look at what is the what?
David: Emotional Reaction to 10.3M is too much……that we spend to much U32 was for more towns we are just one town. Even though that was year ago.   Cost is important and we need to decide if it a budget driven project or a needs driving proposal.

If we go to low, supporters won’t support it. ?

Robbe, Fire Station was not self-supporting. 
The fire Station did not needed to be that Grand…
How do we make this a really good building that will last but is not grand.
Erik was clear that as a volunteer Fire Man for many years that is not the case with the Fire Station.

The next number has to be less than $10.3
Richard says start from 6 go up little by little, do not start from the top.  All you are giving up is the gym.

This what the right project will the proposal address the needs.
Keep refining the project that we have already.

Benefit that we went back to the drawing board…
Square one. 
Robbe is saying to Matt that is his job is tell us what it cost to move things around as he points out at them and ask him questions.  Matt explains the domino effect that moving one thing has when it displaces another…etc.

Don’t do anything to the cafeteria or Gym and fix the Gym in its existing location and be done in the next 20 years?

The U32 gym is over use we can never use it for anything.
We need a solution that we can live with for a long time
History tells we won’t be able to pass anything later.
David tells us that do a more simple cafeteria might work.
If we add the cafeteria by the other classroom that might work.
David and Matt will re-work what is the work of the components…

Discuss Elements of a New Bond Proposal.
Recommendation for next Board Meeting August 20,2012.
We will make one recommendation to the Board
We met under the tent what is the next important thing.
Put a number on that.
Low 8.9Million range?

More voters…A lot of voters if we say look it went down we gave up we did not bear bond it but the quality is still here.
We gave up
Richard:
44% increase in space for not any increase on population or students.
We have increase the pre-school
Increase kindergarten to full time.
We have mandated programs that we had increase.
So like it might sound that we have not more students we have more programs. (Anne and Jamie)
No matter what this thing looks like, they have listened to me if we come under 9M.  They will vote (Glenn Moore)
We still need to make the case
This is not a simple math exercise…and as a committee we can’t hate the proposal we have to be happy with the proposal.

We have to show that we have taken responsibility.
A Plan that we can be happy about it and we will have a number with the components that make up that number. Here is what adds up to the 8.9M or you know what lets not do one of this things and make it lower.
Ken (Educational issues that the administrators and Special Ed need to work out)
They will never buy out…
Integration of technology.

Recommendation to the Board
Matt and David will email and give us options on dates to meet next week.  Depending on the availability of Estimator.
We will meet and refine our recommendation to the Board.
Matt and David
Rally Day
Floor will be away and is looking for help…
We will have photocopies of Mike’s summary for the public and Ellen will have a couple of friends take turns so we have a presence for Rally Day. 
Ellen
Next Meeting.
To be determine please check your email for updates.
Flor will follow up with an email to coordinate meeting.




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East Montpelier Elementary School Facilities Committee
July 30, 2012
In attendance:
Michael Duane, Cort Richardson,  Alicia Lyford, Flor Diaz-Smith, , Robbe Porter, Marion Anastasia, Rubin Bennett, Chris Kiper, Glen Moore
Need to Know: EMES School Board
Agenda Items


Discussion
Follow up/Person Responsible
Review Minutes from July 23 meeting
Clarified Prekindergarten survey results
 55% support Pre-K renovation; 45% do not.

Review Survey data
The comments and feedback were aggregated into one document so that the facilities committee can ascertain themes and trends within the comments; per question. What are we going to do with the qualitative data (comments from survey)? What now?    Michael will identify themes and trends from the data and send the report through e-mail for input and feedback
Michael Duane
Discuss elements of new school board proposal
EMES Board decided to scale down project and look at Option A, which eliminates the new gym.  Also, ‘bump outs’ and a Pre K classroom will be eliminated. Option A  is conceptual drawing that T-C will adjust according to input. Matt will be preparing the scaled down option for consideration.
Cort suggested that we should be presented a couple of options –
Suggestions from Robbe P -  facilities committee communicate that we are considering the following options:  Modification of option A; Fix up option with specific information about the options pros and cons.  To build credibility with the community-
Roof over 5/6 wing does not need replacing for another 10 years.  The roof in other areas in the school does need replacing, however
6 M is for fixing mechanical/code problems, only.  The 2.9 additional M is costs  for  projects not addressing code issues.
How will we deal with  people’s concerns  who want to do the minimum?
A la carte options?
What does the facility committee think the best thing to do for the long run- we  are charged by the Board to take the leadership and propose what is right for the school/community.
Additional information on tax burden is needed –
 Despite the  past  history of EMES administration and economy, if we come back with a plan that strikes a balance and good outreach for education;  there is a shot at passing.
Also we should make an effort to find outside resources.
Small group meetings at homes were not successful last time-people did not volunteer to host meetings
We will continue to brainstorm ideas to get people to host meetings.
Is there anything in Option A that can be set aside for a future project?
This price tag is a product of not making investments/improvements  over the years - 

Facilities Committee, Administrators will be meeting with Matt to give input for Option A
Next meeting
August 6th meeting is for planning with Matt for input – the goal is for Aug 20th meeting with Board for recommendations for a proposal. 
Facilities Committee/Board
Facilities Blog
Rubin has offered to recreate a blog site that is easier to use- www.emesfacility.org
Thanks Rubin!
Consider financing term alternatives
Rates are at the lowest interest  for 20 year bond – under 3 %

Operations and Maintenance
Working on a capital plan – Looking at implementing software so that we can be more organized with the maintenance plans/needs.   The software is the same as what U32 uses – Next step – ‘School Dude’ tutorial to make sure it is appropriate for our use.  Input current data- and then project what it would be once we get the design

Chris, Todd  and Alicia
Public Outreach
What will we be presenting ? Info from survey,  maintenance plan, what’s happening at EMES?  In what venue will we use? Community Forum; Focus Forum; Home meetings; etc

Rally Day
Sept 8th

Next Facilities Meeting
August 6th  5:00  - Alicia & Marion will not be present




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East Montpelier Elementary School Facilities Committee
July 23, 2012
In attendance: Ellen Knoedler, Michael Duane, Cort Richardson, Ken Page, Matthew Wheaton, Chris Kiper, Alicia Lyford, Flor Diaz-Smith, Bill Kimball, Robbe Porter, Marty Miller, Jamie O’Hare, Stephen Looke, Marion Anastasia, Andre Gilbert , Rubin Bennett
Need to Know: EMES School Board
Agenda Items

Review for July 9 meeting
Discussion
Follow up/Person Responsible
Review Additional Survey Results
Total of 124 responses (10%)
 N= 41 from mailing
N= 83 from survey monkey
1244 were mailed from checklist
1443 registered voters in E. Montpelier
Question #1 – responses indicate that the proposal should not be presented as is (14/28)- from mailed survey  (total?)
Marty feels that we should undertake a survey with statistic validity. People assume there were a lot of studies involved-
We should know how the voters voted in the first bond. 
*This survey was to be used for information on how we should move forward, considering the timeline we have to work within.
Ken commented on the climate of the last facilities meeting – We have to take care of the animosity before we move forward.
This survey tells us that we need to reduce the costs
Who is speaking out for the children and the needs of the school?
Question #2 – What contributed to the ‘no’ vote?
N=53 - too much money
N=11 - not enough info
Question # 3 – Support kitchen renovation?
N=86 Yes
N=  21 No
Question #4 – Support Arts/Music
N=58 Yes
N=  48 No
Question #5 -Support Library/Admin
N=55 Yes
N= 47 No
Question # 6 – Need more info on above?
N=41 Yes
 N= 30 No
Question # 7 - Preschool
 56  Yes    No 47 not sure if I got this right!
Question #9 – gym renovation
N=55  yes
N= 49 No

Are there any other inputs that will be helpful? – Flor suggested reading the comment sections from the surveys

It was suggested that we reduce the cost to gain support- without compromising the project.
Utilization of the building was discussed – we need to do a better job communicating the options for the community using the building

Conversations eliminating the gym addition led to about a half million cost saving. 


Flor will send revised tally of both surveys and comments/written feedback
Report on Meetings with Architect and Consultant
Matt discussed that the survey clearly indicated that the people want a less expensive option.  There is another option (option A) that we can work on modifying. The current option cannot be reduced by a million dollars- we need to look at another option.

T-C will have price options to present to the board.
T-C will offer  ways to reduce the budget- then the proposed project will  go to cost estimator ; he will generate  cost cutting ideas and come back – implement changes  for August 20th Board Mtg

T-C
Discussion on elements of new bond proposal
Did not get to this agenda item

Consider financing term alternatives
Did not get to this agenda item

Provide further direction to architects to develop a new design
Did not get to this agenda item

Report from Operational and Maintenance sub committee
Did not get to this agenda item

Preliminary ideas for public education and outreach campaign
Did not get to this agenda item

Time lines
Did not get to this agenda item

Next Steps
Next Meeting: Monday July 30, 2012  5:00 PM









East Montpelier Elementary School Facilities Committee
June 18, 2012
In attendance:  Robby Porter, Alicia Lyford, Michael Duane, Marion Anastasia,  Flor Diaz-Smith, Michelle McFadden, Cort Richardson, Richard Raubertas, Ken Page, Heidemarie HH, Andre Gilbert, Debra Fillion
Agenda Items


Discussion
Follow up/Person Responsible
Approve minutes
of June 4, 2012
Next time we will attach minutes from previous meeting(s) to review/approve.
Marion
Review the final survey
Q 1. Do you support the School Renovation as presented in the bond vote? (Yes or No)
Or – do you think the proposal from May 22 should be modified or presented as in the November  Election-
People think both of these (above) should be included as separate questions.
Q 2.  Do you feel you had enough information to make your decision? (Yes or No)  If you answered No, what information do you need? Strike
Q 3. Was any of the information in the pre-voting mailing confusing or hard to understand?
·       Conversation moved to the issue of the preschool in EMES.  There are strong opposing views of the value of preschool in the building.
·       Inform people about the project – people feel ‘tricked’ about the project.
·       People need to information such as: the gym costs,  preschool costs, etc.. Have a tally for people to fill out- This is what I like, this is what I don’t like.. a menu
·       People need a big picture for the town – Capital project – what are the assurances that it will be taken care of? Some people think we are not taking care of the building now-
·       Facilities committee is trying to remedy the problems that have accumulated over decades.
·       There seems to be a theme around the preschool and gym – which one is it-or was it the money?
·       We need an objective sense of why it failed
·       People said they would vote no if it was 8,9,or 10 million dollars- then, they would reduce the price and then they would vote yes. 
·       Will the capital fund cover the maintenance?
·       It felt like we never got the price tag for the maintenance/replacements.
·       Right now we are working off a schematic – we can’t give exact price until the plan is finalized:  We could project the costs for the next Bond



Q 4.Do you need more information about the preschool program to support the pre-school addition?   Rewrite to state
Do you support the Pre K renovation?
·       Do you need more information to support the Pre K ?

Q 5. Do you support the gym renovation?
·       Do you need more information to support the Gym?

·       Add: do you support the Art/Music renovation?
·       Add: do you support the Admin renovation?

We were reminded to use the words “we” instead of “you” need. The tax payers need the full story. 

Q 6. Are you frustrated by a side issue that is not related to the renovation but affects your ability to support it?  (this question has a distrustful tone)  so, why ask this question?  Strike

Credibility -  we should fix the things that are wrong now-

Q 7. Can we get your support?

Q 8. Do you have kids at EMES?    Strike

Q 9. Do you have kids at U32?    Strike
Suggested that we have yes/ no questions


Flor will re-work the survey

Flor will rework the survey as discussed above-  Next Meeting Date: ?
Sept 18- First Public Meeting
Oct 2 – Second Public Meeting
Week of October 8 – Warn the vote
Oct 29 – Public Hearing
November 6 – Bond Vote


















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East Montpelier Elementary School Facilities Committee
June 4, 2012
DRAFT MEETING MINUTES
In attendance:   Todd Hill, , Flor Diaz-Smith,  Rubin Bennett,  Andre Gilbert, Matt Wheaton, Tony Kline,  Ginny Burley,  Andy  Christiansen (andy@oldbarnvt.com), Marion Anastasia, Ken Page
Recorder: Marion

Agenda Items


Discussion
Follow up/Person Responsible
1. Welcome to New members and Guests

Discussion- first meeting of facilities committee after the bond vote.  We know that bonds generally do not pass the first time through- we were surprised, however,  that it did not pass. We have now heard from the community and we are ready to go out again.  We haven’t had enough correspondences from those who did not support the bond. We have had a lot of positive responses from those who did support the vote. Vote was 404-286- (East Montpelier checklist is 2100).
Andy- in 1965, many bonds failed-historically they looked on a taxing mechanism that the town could agree to.  They solicited the opponents, door to door to talk with the school board and process.  After, they could see why there was question.  It is easier to say no than yes. In order to have people say yes, it is important to have face to face communication. If all the proponents talked to opponents, they wouldn’t have to talk to too many people.   Many people do not want to come to public meetings – that is why door to door communication is essential.
Ginny- there was a lot of compromise in the process as well (in the 60’s). For example the gym vs. a multipurpose room. 
Ken- it is wise to listen in the long run – Identify and listen why –he guesses it was the price tag. Try not to be reactionary and welcome the people who were against; as well as who were for the project.
Rubin – Concurred with Ken’s comments.  This is a community project- so how do we ensure that people use their voice and that their input is brought into it.
Ginny-  Make people feel safe to voice their opinions.
Flor- What are the compromises that people may want to see?
Ginny- Maybe a tiered approach, for example: Tier 1 safety issues, Tier 2, etc…
Andre- Referred to Jim Shea’s scenario- Will this be a 25 year fix, will we have to revisit in 5 years?
Tony- Referred to Ken’s comment on listening – spoke to people who never came to a meeting, and they were quick to tell him why they didn’t vote.  It’s not just one reason why people didn’t vote.  In the 80’s when we had a failed bond vote, there was a call for a community committee with representatives from both sides of the equations -40 people.  Many people came to participate. This vote has to do with: the price tag, distrust with fire department building project, issues with the town offices facility needs, gym, preschool, kitchen, etc.
Tony was a strong advocate for a new gym in the 80’s for the same reasons as now.  In retrospect, none of the kids from the 80’s have suffered.  Some of the finest athletes and scholars have come from here.  This is why they resist the price tag for the gym. The Preschool – people think that PreK may eliminate the need for neighborhood day cares; people are resisting this.
Rubin – hearing that there are a lot of people not supportive for a variety of reasons.  Where those votes come from; are not always factual.  You have to get to a point where people have to process the facts.   It is understandable where the distrust may come from.
Flor – got information about the large number of people who forgot, wanted to be neutral, or did not want to vote because they could live with either decision. 
Tony- People want to see movement to know that they have been heard. 
Ken- there is a host of reasons why people opposed -  It may not be about the vote at all, may be about the other things that are going on in town. 
Flor- How do we go about addressing the town plan?  How do keep from putting more things on the school?
What do you need to be convinced to vote?
Tony- people felt comfortable talking to me, I told people that I voted for it for respect for school boards and wanted to be part of the solutions to the problems.
Andre – what about preschoolers? If it is the right thing to do, how do we get that out?
Rubin- would the price tag of 8 million get the vote?
Andre- Talked to people that think there should be thoughts about consolidation, not necessarily less money.
Ken- Look at more creative ways to get the same building.
Rubin- talked about conceptual plans with no hard number with plans – would voters feel more comfortable with a plan that is not just conceptual.  People do not feel that the Ed Specs are helpful.
Ken- Curious about fire /safety- why are you so extended out on this?
Ginny- Doesn’t think that code violations are an issue with the voters. 
Andy- Political angle –facts aren’t very important-more of a question of faith.  If you come up with a number that is lower than the original it won’t pass.  There are people scared, don’t have jobs. Spending the money on 250 kids.   Educational Coop- expanding the scope of the schools mission to include other things, such as Adult Ed, etc, that will affect a larger number of people in the building.   
Matt – It is only affecting 250 students – but this is every
 year- larger cross section of the community.
Rubin-  Everything is factual for me – fundamental truth that people see things in different ways.  We need to hear many perspectives in order to inform our decisions. 
Tony- U32 community proposed a ‘Shaperio’ building: great success in getting the community involved, but not fiscally.

Next steps – Get a community meeting in late August/early fall.  Asking for the community’s help.  School board agenda items.
Surveys now. 
Community meeting for questions and concerns. – What do we do now? The problems have not disappeared.
Need to work backward to get in election on Nov 6
Oct 12 – write language
Oct – 10 days before vote for pre bond meeting
The process: Input from community to give to the board –Given the information, what will we do with the information?
Facts are not as simple as they appear to be: Fire and handicap accessibility.  EMES may be a place to gather in the case of an emergency; fact that we have obese children, fact that if we build this it will increase the value of your property.  State the facts.  U32 facts for EMES residents (bond vote info).
People are expecting the same proposal – any movement that takes the wind out of that sail, will help.
Some people have said that they don’t care if there is a higher cost in years to come. 
Tony suggested increasing the PR with the press, etc.
What would it take to change people minds?
 Listening- movement –not  reactionary – thoughtful conversation
Positives- no argument that the building is in dire need of help.  Working within a base of 4-5 million and capped at 10 million. 
Rubin reminded the committee that we are on phase #2 from years ago- and nothing was ever done. 
Capital plan is essential- Chris Kiper has been working on this.


2. Survey Discussion

Survey –
Flor presented the draft surveys – Please make sure you edit the surveys and send them back to Flor via e-mail.
Rank some items on the survey?

Additional discussion
Constantly remind people of the condition of the building.
The overall scope of the project is too large for this community- the gym and preschool is a big issue. The parking lot is an issue.  Outside issues such as the fire house and/or town office.
Informing the community about preschool is necessary.


3. Review Next steps to prepare for Future Vote in November

·       Lunch at school events to get people at school
·       Reach out to other committees
·       Representatives of facilities committee attend a select board meeting(s)
·       Maintenance plan and capital plan  discussion


4. Schedule next meeting


June 18, 5:30 Next meeting – before Board Meeting.






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