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East Montpelier Elementary School Facilities
Committee
August 6, 2012
In attendance: Glenn Moore, Ken Page, Erik Esselstyn, Richard Raubertas,
Michael Duane, Flor Diaz-Smith, Robbe Porter, Ellen
Knoedler, Jamie O’Hare, Anne Carter, André Gilbert,
Need to Know: EMES School Board
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Agenda Items
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Discussion
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Follow
up/Person Responsible
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Review Minutes from July 30,2012
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No
comments.
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Review Report from Mike Duane on Comments
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Unscientific
report on an unscientific survey (Mike)
A.
This
price tag is a product of not making investments/improvements over the years
-
Aprox. Total of East Montpelier
registered voters 1,443
Number of votes cast in May 2012 bond
vote 690
NO
Votes 404 N
YES
Votes 286
Y
Diff. 118
B.
Number
of surveys received/returned
124 (83 on-line/41
by mail)
Respondents
who indicated they had voted No 58
C.
Do
you support bond for numerical results:
Kitchen Yes
87* No 21 blank 16
Art
& Music Yes
59 No 48 blank 16
Pre-K
Yes 57 No 47 blank 20
Lib./Admin. Yes
56 No 47 blank 20
Gym
Yes 56 No 49 blank 19
D.
General narrative survey results themes:
50% of the comments stated that the cost
of the bond was simply too high; 25% of the comments supported the bond
generally;
10%
questioned the need for an assistant principal; (operational not capitol)
10%
questioned the need for a pre-school in the building;
8%
questioned the need for the gym space;
7%
questioned the cost of the fire station;
E.
General observations
Many comments thanking the Board and Committee for their work on both Yes
and No votes;
Many
comments to just do the basics to bring the school up to code;
4-5 commenters:
“You”
statements;
A
vote choice;
How
could the school have been so neglected/not maintained?
Merger
issues (other schools and U-32)
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TC
Review further Architectural analysis and
recommendations
Provide further input to Architects in
what direction to go.
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Option
A1.
Bathrooms:
You
have to blow walls to make them bigger to comply with code.
Program
driven solution or budget oriented solution? David Epstein
8.9
Million
Ellen
Teaches in one of those rooms, they don’t want any less Sf they need the
space. They need the space no Small collaboration rooms.
Given
the comments we have to be clear in how we label and not hide information. Label
classrooms. (Mike)
The
space needs of the entire school. Feeling in the community from people that
have been here for a long time.
Call it a PK a Primary
Wing, List who is going to be in each section.
From
Both plans:
Space
Functioning
and working bathrooms. Time out
space. Big kids! More space. Spaces whiting the classroom with the break out
room.
Flexible
space for Art and Music room.
Anne
keeping the cafeteria separate is important.
The
Bond that was defeated was 10.3 (Mike Duane)
8.3
M
We
can make that work It has to be in the low 8 million dollar range.
Something
needs to be done.
Art
and Music are to small the way they are right now. Not enough space
You
want and need all the space what do we give up?
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Facilities
Committee, Administrators
TC
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TC
Review further Architectural analysis and
recommendations
Provide further input to Architects in
what direction to go.
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Some
or most members of the community do not understand the cost of the renovation
and how much it will impact their taxes.
Get a
letter for how much your specific house increase is.
A
dollar a day per family (Erik ) plan that we can rally around. Lets look at what is the what?
David:
Emotional Reaction to 10.3M is too much……that we spend to much U32 was for
more towns we are just one town. Even though that was year ago. Cost is important and we need
to decide if it a budget driven project or a needs driving proposal.
If we
go to low, supporters won’t support it. ?
Robbe,
Fire Station was not self-supporting.
The
fire Station did not needed to be that Grand…
How
do we make this a really good building that will last but is not grand.
Erik
was clear that as a volunteer Fire Man for many years that is not the case
with the Fire Station.
The
next number has to be less than $10.3
Richard
says start from 6 go up little by little, do not start from the top. All you are giving up is the gym.
This
what the right project will the proposal address the needs.
Keep
refining the project that we have already.
Benefit
that we went back to the drawing board…
Square
one.
Robbe
is saying to Matt that is his job is tell us what it cost to move things
around as he points out at them and ask him questions. Matt explains the domino effect that
moving one thing has when it displaces another…etc.
Don’t
do anything to the cafeteria or Gym and fix the Gym in its existing location
and be done in the next 20 years?
The
U32 gym is over use we can never use it for anything.
We
need a solution that we can live with for a long time
History
tells we won’t be able to pass anything later.
David
tells us that do a more simple cafeteria might work.
If we
add the cafeteria by the other classroom that might work.
David
and Matt will re-work what is the work of the components…
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Discuss Elements of a New Bond Proposal.
Recommendation for next Board Meeting
August 20,2012.
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We
will make one recommendation to the Board
We
met under the tent what is the next important thing.
Put
a number on that.
Low
8.9Million range?
More
voters…A lot of voters if we say look it went down we gave up we did not bear
bond it but the quality is still here.
We
gave up
Richard:
44%
increase in space for not any increase on population or students.
We
have increase the pre-school
Increase
kindergarten to full time.
We
have mandated programs that we had increase.
So
like it might sound that we have not more students we have more programs.
(Anne and Jamie)
No
matter what this thing looks like, they have listened to me if we come under
9M. They will vote (Glenn Moore)
We
still need to make the case
This
is not a simple math exercise…and as a committee we can’t hate the proposal
we have to be happy with the proposal.
We
have to show that we have taken responsibility.
A
Plan that we can be happy about it and we will have a number with the
components that make up that number. Here is what adds up to the 8.9M or you
know what lets not do one of this things and make it lower.
Ken
(Educational issues that the administrators and Special Ed need to work out)
They
will never buy out…
Integration
of technology.
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Recommendation to the Board
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Matt
and David will email and give us options on dates to meet next week. Depending on the availability of
Estimator.
We
will meet and refine our recommendation to the Board.
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Matt
and David
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Rally Day
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Floor
will be away and is looking for help…
We
will have photocopies of Mike’s summary for the public and Ellen will have a
couple of friends take turns so we have a presence for Rally Day.
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Ellen
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Next Meeting.
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To be
determine please check your email for updates.
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Flor
will follow up with an email to coordinate meeting.
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*************************************************************************
East Montpelier Elementary
School Facilities Committee
July 30, 2012
In attendance:
Michael Duane, Cort
Richardson, Alicia Lyford, Flor
Diaz-Smith, , Robbe Porter, Marion Anastasia, Rubin Bennett, Chris Kiper,
Glen Moore
Need to Know: EMES School Board
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Agenda Items
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Discussion
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Follow
up/Person Responsible
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Review Minutes from July 23 meeting
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Clarified
Prekindergarten survey results
55% support Pre-K renovation; 45% do
not.
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Review Survey data
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The
comments and feedback were aggregated into one document so that the
facilities committee can ascertain themes and trends within the comments; per
question. What are we going to do with the qualitative data (comments from
survey)? What now? Michael will identify themes and trends from the data and send
the report through e-mail for input and feedback
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Michael
Duane
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Discuss elements of new school board
proposal
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EMES Board
decided to scale down project and look at Option A, which eliminates the new
gym. Also, ‘bump outs’ and a Pre
K classroom will be eliminated. Option A is conceptual drawing that T-C will adjust according to
input. Matt will be preparing the scaled down option for consideration.
Cort
suggested that we should be presented a couple of options –
Suggestions
from Robbe P - facilities
committee communicate that we are considering the following options: Modification of option A; Fix up
option with specific information about the options pros and cons. To build credibility with the
community-
Roof
over 5/6 wing does not need replacing for another 10 years. The roof in other areas in the school
does need replacing, however
6 M
is for fixing mechanical/code problems, only. The 2.9 additional M is costs for projects not
addressing code issues.
How
will we deal with people’s
concerns who want to do the
minimum?
A la
carte options?
What
does the facility committee think the best thing to do for the long run- we are charged by the Board to take the
leadership and propose what is right for the school/community.
Additional
information on tax burden is needed –
Despite the past history
of EMES administration and economy, if we come back with a plan that strikes
a balance and good outreach for education; there is a shot at passing.
Also we
should make an effort to find outside resources.
Small
group meetings at homes were not successful last time-people did not
volunteer to host meetings
We
will continue to brainstorm ideas to get people to host meetings.
Is
there anything in Option A that can be set aside for a future project?
This
price tag is a product of not making investments/improvements over the years -
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Facilities
Committee, Administrators will be meeting with Matt to give input for Option
A
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Next meeting
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August
6th meeting is for planning with Matt for input – the goal is for
Aug 20th meeting with Board for recommendations for a
proposal.
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Facilities
Committee/Board
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Facilities Blog
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Rubin
has offered to recreate a blog site that is easier to use- www.emesfacility.org
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Thanks
Rubin!
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Consider financing term alternatives
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Rates
are at the lowest interest for
20 year bond – under 3 %
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Operations and Maintenance
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Working
on a capital plan – Looking at implementing software so that we can be more
organized with the maintenance plans/needs. The software is the same as what U32 uses – Next step
– ‘School Dude’ tutorial to make sure it is appropriate for our use. Input current data- and then project
what it would be once we get the design
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Chris,
Todd and Alicia
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Public Outreach
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What
will we be presenting ? Info from survey, maintenance plan, what’s happening at EMES? In what venue will we use? Community
Forum; Focus Forum; Home meetings; etc
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Rally Day
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Sept
8th
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Next Facilities Meeting
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August
6th 5:00 - Alicia & Marion will not be present
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********************************************************************************
East Montpelier Elementary
School Facilities Committee
July 23, 2012
In attendance: Ellen Knoedler,
Michael Duane, Cort Richardson, Ken Page, Matthew Wheaton, Chris Kiper,
Alicia Lyford, Flor Diaz-Smith, Bill Kimball, Robbe Porter, Marty Miller,
Jamie O’Hare, Stephen Looke, Marion Anastasia, Andre Gilbert , Rubin Bennett
Need to Know: EMES School Board
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Agenda Items
Review for July 9 meeting
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Discussion
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Follow
up/Person Responsible
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Review Additional Survey Results
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Total
of 124 responses (10%)
N= 41 from mailing
N= 83
from survey monkey
1244
were mailed from checklist
1443
registered voters in E. Montpelier
Question #1 – responses indicate that
the proposal should not be presented as is (14/28)- from mailed survey (total?)
Marty
feels that we should undertake a survey with statistic validity. People
assume there were a lot of studies involved-
We
should know how the voters voted in the first bond.
*This survey was to be used for
information on how we should move forward, considering the timeline we have
to work within.
Ken
commented on the climate of the last facilities meeting – We have to take care of the animosity
before we move forward.
This
survey tells us that we need to reduce the costs
Who
is speaking out for the children and the needs of the school?
Question #2 – What contributed to the
‘no’ vote?
N=53
- too much money
N=11
- not enough info
Question # 3 – Support kitchen
renovation?
N=86 Yes
N= 21 No
Question #4 – Support Arts/Music
N=58
Yes
N= 48 No
Question #5 -Support Library/Admin
N=55 Yes
N= 47
No
Question # 6 – Need more info on
above?
N=41
Yes
N= 30 No
Question # 7 - Preschool
56 Yes No 47 not sure if I got this right!
Question #9 – gym renovation
N=55 yes
N= 49
No
Are
there any other inputs that will be helpful? – Flor suggested reading the
comment sections from the surveys
It was suggested that we reduce the cost to gain support- without
compromising the project.
Utilization of the building was discussed – we need to do a better
job communicating the options for the community using the building
Conversations
eliminating the gym addition led to about a half million cost saving.
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Flor
will send revised tally of both surveys and comments/written feedback
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Report on Meetings with Architect and
Consultant
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Matt
discussed that the survey clearly indicated that the people want a less
expensive option. There is
another option (option A) that we can work on modifying. The current option
cannot be reduced by a million dollars- we need to look at another option.
T-C
will have price options to present to the board.
T-C
will offer ways to reduce the
budget- then the proposed project will
go to cost estimator ; he will generate cost cutting ideas and come back – implement changes for August 20th Board Mtg
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T-C
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Discussion on elements of new bond
proposal
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Did
not get to this agenda item
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Consider financing term alternatives
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Did
not get to this agenda item
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Provide further direction to architects to
develop a new design
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Did
not get to this agenda item
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Report from Operational and Maintenance
sub committee
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Did
not get to this agenda item
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Preliminary ideas for public education and
outreach campaign
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Did
not get to this agenda item
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Time lines
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Did
not get to this agenda item
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Next Steps
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Next
Meeting: Monday July 30, 2012 5:00
PM
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East Montpelier Elementary
School Facilities Committee
June 18, 2012
In attendance: Robby Porter, Alicia Lyford, Michael
Duane, Marion Anastasia, Flor
Diaz-Smith, Michelle McFadden, Cort Richardson, Richard Raubertas, Ken Page,
Heidemarie HH, Andre Gilbert, Debra Fillion
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Agenda Items
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Discussion
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Follow
up/Person Responsible
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Approve minutes
of June 4, 2012
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Next
time we will attach minutes from previous meeting(s) to review/approve.
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Marion
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Review the final survey
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Q 1. Do
you support the School Renovation as presented in the bond vote? (Yes or No)
Or –
do you think the proposal from May 22 should be modified or presented as in
the November Election-
People
think both of these (above) should be included as separate questions.
·
Conversation moved to the issue of the
preschool in EMES. There are strong
opposing views of the value of preschool in the building.
·
Inform people about the project – people feel
‘tricked’ about the project.
·
People need to information such as: the gym
costs, preschool costs, etc..
Have a tally for people to fill out- This is what I like, this is what I
don’t like.. a menu
·
People need a big picture for the town –
Capital project – what are the assurances that it will be taken care of? Some
people think we are not taking care of the building now-
·
Facilities committee is trying to remedy the
problems that have accumulated over decades.
·
There seems to be a theme around the preschool
and gym – which one is it-or was it the money?
·
We need an objective sense of why it failed
·
People said they would vote no if it was
8,9,or 10 million dollars- then, they would reduce the price and then they
would vote yes.
·
Will the capital fund cover the maintenance?
·
It felt like we never got the price tag for
the maintenance/replacements.
·
Right now we are working off a schematic – we
can’t give exact price until the plan is finalized: We could project the costs for the next Bond
Q
4.Do you need more information about the preschool program to support the
pre-school addition? Rewrite to state
Do
you support the Pre K renovation?
·
Do you need more information to support the
Pre K ?
Q 5.
Do you support the gym renovation?
·
Do you need more information to support the
Gym?
·
Add: do you support the Art/Music renovation?
·
Add: do you support the Admin renovation?
We were reminded to use the words “we”
instead of “you” need. The tax payers need the full story.
Credibility
- we should fix the things that
are wrong now-
Suggested
that we have yes/ no questions
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Flor
will re-work the survey
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Flor
will rework the survey as discussed above- Next Meeting Date: ?
Sept
18- First Public Meeting
Oct 2
– Second Public Meeting
Week
of October 8 – Warn the vote
Oct
29 – Public Hearing
November
6 – Bond Vote
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************************************** *****************************************
East Montpelier Elementary
School Facilities Committee
June
4, 2012
DRAFT
MEETING MINUTES
In attendance: Todd Hill, , Flor Diaz-Smith, Rubin Bennett, Andre Gilbert, Matt Wheaton, Tony Kline, Ginny Burley, Andy Christiansen (andy@oldbarnvt.com),
Marion Anastasia, Ken Page
Recorder: Marion
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Agenda Items
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Discussion
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Follow
up/Person Responsible
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1. Welcome to New members and Guests
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Discussion- first meeting of
facilities committee after the bond vote. We know that bonds generally do not pass the first time
through- we were surprised, however,
that it did not pass. We have now heard from the community and we are
ready to go out again. We
haven’t had enough correspondences from those who did not support the bond.
We have had a lot of positive responses from those who did support the vote.
Vote was 404-286- (East Montpelier checklist is 2100).
Andy- in 1965, many bonds
failed-historically they looked on a taxing mechanism that the town could
agree to. They solicited the
opponents, door to door to talk with the school board and process. After, they could see why there was
question. It is easier to say no
than yes. In order to have people say yes, it is important to have face to
face communication. If all the proponents talked to opponents, they wouldn’t
have to talk to too many people.
Many people do not want
to come to public meetings – that is why door to door communication is
essential.
Ginny- there was a lot of compromise
in the process as well (in the 60’s). For example the gym vs. a multipurpose
room.
Ken- it is wise to listen in the long
run – Identify and listen why –he guesses it was the price tag. Try not to be
reactionary and welcome the people who were against; as well as who were for
the project.
Rubin – Concurred with Ken’s comments. This is a community project- so how
do we ensure that people use their voice and that their input is brought into
it.
Ginny- Make people feel safe to voice their opinions.
Flor- What are the compromises that people
may want to see?
Ginny- Maybe a tiered approach, for
example: Tier 1 safety issues, Tier 2, etc…
Andre- Referred to Jim Shea’s
scenario- Will this be a 25 year fix, will we have to revisit in 5 years?
Tony- Referred to Ken’s comment on
listening – spoke to people who never came to a meeting, and they were quick
to tell him why they didn’t vote.
It’s not just one reason why people didn’t vote. In the 80’s when we had a failed bond
vote, there was a call for a community committee with representatives from
both sides of the equations -40 people.
Many people came to participate. This vote has to do with: the price
tag, distrust with fire department building project, issues with the town
offices facility needs, gym, preschool, kitchen, etc.
Tony
was a strong advocate for a new gym in the 80’s for the same reasons as
now. In retrospect, none of the
kids from the 80’s have suffered.
Some of the finest athletes and scholars have come from here. This is why they resist the price tag
for the gym. The Preschool – people think that PreK may eliminate the need
for neighborhood day cares; people are resisting this.
Rubin – hearing that there are a lot
of people not supportive for a variety of reasons. Where those votes come from; are not always factual. You have to get to a point where
people have to process the facts.
It is understandable where the distrust may come from.
Flor – got information about the large
number of people who forgot, wanted to be neutral, or did not want to vote
because they could live with either decision.
Tony- People want to see movement to
know that they have been heard.
Ken- there is a host of reasons why
people opposed - It may not be
about the vote at all, may be about the other things that are going on in
town.
Flor- How do we go about addressing
the town plan? How do keep from
putting more things on the school?
What
do you need to be convinced to vote?
Tony- people felt comfortable talking
to me, I told people that I voted for it for respect for school boards and
wanted to be part of the solutions to the problems.
Andre – what about preschoolers? If it
is the right thing to do, how do we get that out?
Rubin- would the price tag of 8
million get the vote?
Andre- Talked to people that think
there should be thoughts about consolidation, not necessarily less money.
Ken- Look at more creative ways to get
the same building.
Rubin- talked about conceptual plans
with no hard number with plans – would voters feel more comfortable with a
plan that is not just conceptual.
People do not feel that the Ed Specs are helpful.
Ken- Curious about fire /safety- why
are you so extended out on this?
Ginny- Doesn’t think that code
violations are an issue with the voters.
Andy- Political angle –facts aren’t
very important-more of a question of faith. If you come up with a number that is lower than the
original it won’t pass. There
are people scared, don’t have jobs. Spending the money on 250 kids. Educational Coop- expanding the
scope of the schools mission to include other things, such as Adult Ed, etc,
that will affect a larger number of people in the building.
Matt – It is only affecting 250
students – but this is every
year- larger cross section of the
community.
Rubin- Everything is factual for me – fundamental truth that people
see things in different ways. We
need to hear many perspectives in order to inform our decisions.
Tony- U32 community proposed a
‘Shaperio’ building: great success in getting the community involved, but not
fiscally.
Next
steps – Get a community meeting in late August/early fall. Asking for the community’s help. School board agenda items.
Surveys
now.
Community
meeting for questions and concerns. – What do we do now? The problems have
not disappeared.
Need
to work backward to get in election on Nov
6
Oct
12 – write language
Oct –
10 days before vote for pre bond meeting
The process: Input from community to give to the board –Given the
information, what will we do with the information?
Facts are not as simple as they appear to be: Fire and handicap
accessibility. EMES may be a
place to gather in the case of an emergency; fact that we have obese
children, fact that if we build this it will increase the value of your
property. State the facts. U32 facts for EMES residents (bond
vote info).
People are expecting the same proposal – any movement that takes the
wind out of that sail, will help.
Some people have said that they don’t care if there is a higher cost
in years to come.
Tony suggested increasing
the PR with the press, etc.
What would it take to change people minds?
Listening- movement
–not reactionary – thoughtful
conversation
Positives- no argument that the building is in dire need of help. Working within a base of 4-5 million
and capped at 10 million.
Rubin reminded the committee that we are on phase #2 from years ago-
and nothing was ever done.
Capital plan is essential- Chris Kiper has been working on this.
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2. Survey Discussion
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Survey –
Flor presented the draft surveys – Please
make sure you edit the surveys and send them back to Flor via e-mail.
Rank
some items on the survey?
Additional
discussion
Constantly remind people of the condition
of the building.
The overall scope of the project is too
large for this community- the gym and preschool is a big issue. The parking
lot is an issue. Outside issues
such as the fire house and/or town office.
Informing the community about preschool is
necessary.
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3. Review Next steps to prepare for Future
Vote in November
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·
Lunch at school events to get people at school
·
Reach out to other committees
·
Representatives of facilities committee attend
a select board meeting(s)
·
Maintenance plan and capital plan discussion
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4.
Schedule
next meeting
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June 18, 5:30 Next meeting – before Board
Meeting.
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